These are some excellent points. On the first I would love to invite our lovely medical herbalist @pamelaspence to share some of her views. Certainly love to hear as much as our Pioneers are happy to share - both in how they feel and also in how the respond to the plant … so the more the better. Of course, responses as you pointed out @drmudlark have been extremely individual based on the first real world trial we ran earlier in the year (S1) with valerian.
We know medicinal plants work for some people, some of the time, but we don’t know who, when and how much. So sofi isn’t trying to establish that valerian or passiflora are effective plants. We know they are. We just don’t know for how and how much. And that is the key question that sofi is looking to answer - we sometimes internally refer to this as “spotifying” plants - or working out which plants specifically and at what dose has a specific response on me. You second observation is super clever. An don this one I would love to invite the architect of our sofi brain @enricovarano to add to this when he is back. But I remember a conversation with him many month ago @drmudlark when I was asking what is the real advance that’s making our sofi possible - is it these super processing units in our pockets, or is it the maths. He pointed out that all the mathematics we are running across all the machines to calculate and observe effect have been dramatically sped up over the last 30 years due to processor capability … but that has gone from say answering in 30 seconds to a mili second … but the real advanced have been the advanced mathetmics, manifolds, elasticated searches etc … which actually 30 years ago were barely on the boards of PhD student scribbles. I think the bringing together of the old world and the new world is something that is super exciting for us in developing our sofi xx
Thankyou very much! I cannot wait to get my pebble and then my pioneer pack , i really need to get some half decent sleep! Its really affecting my life and my mental health, i wouldve really liked to have started this from the beginning with valerian but iv been told im going to be on the 3rd one, i dont know if i can wait that long!
It’s funny @charliekluf82 cause @Aaron definitely feels like part of the team … in fact we really love our pioneers and we ourselves are pioneers as we take what we test along with everyone here … we do sometimes have blurred lines!
In regard to side-effects with herbs, while we haven’t asked about them specifically (which is perhaps something to consider @Kaveh ?) but we did notice that because people were posting in here during the first trial with valerian, they mentioned them here so we do have a record of them (if they were reported). Generally speaking, there are not many clinical trials on herbs (there is not much money to be made there so it hasn’t been a priority for pharma companies) but rather on isolated compounds which went on to become pharmaceuticals. However if you think on the fact that herbal medicine WAS our only medicine for millenia (and still is in some parts of the world) then looking back at the texts written in those times shows that even mild side effects were very clearly noted. Plants with more problematic side effects (like belladonna, for example) were/are still used but restricted and very carefully dosed. So we do know what to look for, and the empirical evidence exists, just that there are few modern day trials to repeat what we already know.
I think, like @Kaveh that the bringing together of that old world evidence with the data capabilities of sofi is incredibly exciting - and capturing this real world data in the way that the sofi brain is learning to do is completely new territory.
Thankyou @pamelaspence and @Kaveh for your comprehensive replies. Sorry i havent been in here for a while to thank you promptly. Dunno where time goes!
Also @Kaveh i would be eternally grafeful if there could be similar studies about chronic pain, although sofi has enough on its hands right now studying sleep responses to plants. I have suffered for about 20 years, with fibromyalgia and arthritis which i assume are the main causes of my pain, and for a lot of people who experience chronic pain and inflammation expecially as we get older. I noticed an improvement during the exceptionally dry period we had in southern England in July and August. I wonder if any other people who have chronic pain found the same. We should probably go and live in a desert!
I know its off topic from sleep issues (although there may be a connection) but would it be ok if i started a thread about chronic pain? I would be interested to hear the experience of other Pioneers who may have similar issues and maybe some of them might be interested to ‘compare notes and remedies’ ?
Hi, i would be very interested in a thread about chronic pain. I have arthritis and a herniated disk plus sciatica and im trying to get a diagnosis of fibromyalgia too as i I know that I have it, its hard getting it diagnosed!
My sympathies Kerry x.
It took years for my fibro to be diagnosed.
I can see there are other threads on here that are not just about sleep issues and sofi so i will start one on pain shortly
need to get in the zzzzzzs before then 
