This topic may have been addressed before or in part before so sorry for any repetition.
With regards the latest release of the S3 pioneer program, Ashwagandha. (But relevant to all the other pioneers formulations)
I will try to keep this as simple as possible!
Basically my question is regarding dosages and if the correct dose is the same for everyone or do other factors play a role in the number of spray’s? Also when to spray? Time of day, eg shift work interference? (I know my score doesn’t always look high as the app may register no spray’s one day and then what looks like double the next day as some have been administered after midnight) making my score look worse than my commitment. In addition how are variations in our different circumstances for example work and lifestyle commitments / choices dealt with when compiling results, along with many other variables?
I will start by asking about the dose. I expect continuity is of the utmost importance to the reliability of the outcome of results. The dose has to be relevant and established as fluctuations will affect the results and make them practically irrelevant otherwise.
Therefore is the number of spray’s the same for everyone? The reason for asking is that many factors such as body mass must play a part when it comes to effectiveness of any given dose. Someone weighing 55kg for example could well be liable to feel more benefit in comparison to a 110kg person if they are taking the same number of spray’s eg 3 spray’s? That brings me on to whether the number of spray’s should be adapted according to body size/mass or is this already taken into account somehow or will it be?
Other factors such as metabolism, gender, age, levels of activity/mobility - the list goes on and on could be playing a big part. Is there anything already in place to take account of a long list of variables? If not will they be introduced?
It would be interesting to know if other pioneers feel like different factors play a part, what these are and if they have changed the number of spray’s when taking their doses into account to find the optimal solution for their individual situation?
Then onto lifestyle commitments such as type of work, stress levels and daily activity/exercise must have a bearing on how much of the tested product is needed. A much more active person who say drinks a lot more water in my view is on average likely to pass the dose through their bodies quicker.
Then other pioneers lifestyle choices, smoking, drinking alcohol and using other medications or even illegal drugs could have significant implications on the pioneer study? I am wondering if anything like this has been considered or are there plans to do so?
I could go on and on but I hope & imagine everyone gets the ideas surrounding my query.
Is there a set dose for all regardless and if so how much/when should Ashwagandha be taken? Taking into account there are so many variables that affect the results, for the study to reflect the differences between pioneers accurately and give a reliable relationship between everyone?
All good points oliver.
I asked a similar question about confounding variables and sofi statistical analysis a while ago and received an interesting answer but i would have to search for it and not about to now because i plan to take 1 spray to help get back to sleep after waking up needing a wee! Another downside to getting older that affects broken sleep!
There are also external triggers that can affect our sleep too: season -daylight and temperature, emotional upset, noise, shocks etc (e.g. there is a big super rat too clever for live traps and snap traps, and resistant to poison who has taken up residence somewhere in my home and i cant tell you how my heart races when i hear it in my bedroom ) Sooo many variables, so little time!
Im sure you will get a useful answer from the analysis team members and i will watch this space!
I expect that individuals can find their optimum doses and times with trying these things out, but that will take time and likely more than the 30 day trials when I’m inclined to take the recommended 6 sprays a ‘day’ (see below). Perhaps when we purchase the product that feels best for us we can find our individual optimal levels. Some pioneers are taking 3 sprays in the daytime if they suffer from anxiety and 3 at night. I take all of them at night as sleep is my priority.
I dont think there is any problem with the ‘day’ count i.e spraying after midnight and your daily record. The sofi analysis wont be constrained by the 24 hour clock.
I will search later today for the interesting answer i received to a question on variables (i would like to read that again anyway) so you can read that too as well as the answer you will get from the sofi analysis expert.
This is such an important point @oliver75gaskell you are entirely correct. If this was a maths problem of estimation (that’s how I see it in principle but let me add @enricovarano who can explain the maths way that sofi’s brain works to interpret signals in the time series data generated by usage (sofi pod) and effect (sofi app)) …
We always start with a standard dose (@pamelaspence also adding here as this may have similarities to how medical herbalists work as well) … now what we know is that the standard dose works for the standard person … and most us are a variation to that theme which is the beauty of life … some variations are physical (mass, metabolise, age, underlying conditions) some metaphysical (life stressor, belief, perception, family, emotions, …) and we are each a wonderful cocktail that makes us a unique phenomenon in some ways (but if we were totally unique there would be no “herd” level observations and we wouldn’t have a benefit of training sofi across thousands of pioneers … so in that sense we are all unique but somewhere share a mother that crossed the Sahara sub content a million years ago …
So sofi solves this with pure mathematics seeing if there is any correlation including lag effect over 30 days that can be attributed Uniquely to the standard dosage that we all begin with … as she builds certainty over time if she observes zero effect based on variability of taking the plant then both during and after the plant runs out over any period of lag effect days then it is highly improbable that a change in dosage would have registered a louder or gentler melody … we are delivering phytho chemistry from a beautiful plant … it probably has some benefits … just not hitting the relevant pathway of sleep or calm (there are about 11 of those) with this plant … so time to change … but imagine we heard a small melody at a per press level … that is a useful signal … the lag effect - or how many days of spraying it takes before sofi brain perceives a melody is a really good proxy for physical variability and the sofi brain solves for that mathematically … super important questions and at some point when @enricovarano stops working on our science write up on sofi will hopefully add more here … as always grateful for the questions and the mindshare @oliver75gaskell@drmudlark
We had a similar question on another thread recently about timings of sprays.
So what i can add to Kaveh’s explanation is that in my world, as a medical herbalist, we would always start with a standard amount and then be alert for reasons to change that - unless there is a major reason not to. That could be because we are working with a patient who is a child for example (not an issue for sofi currently).
From that point we would simply increase or decrease the dose we think is needed - by listening to what that body is telling us through the symptoms. But most often the standard dose works just fine.
The question about timing is interesting too. So if i have a patient who just has sleep problems i might tell them to take their full daily dose over the evening and just before lights out - loading it up towards the end of the day. But if that patient also has anxiety and their herbs are chosen to help with that as well, then i would get them to split their dose equally over the 24 hours so that they have a fairly steady level of herbal support.
As for all the other life variables - we can’t account for all of those and i would say that if a herb is going to work for you it needs to work for your life, your situation, your body. Which of course includes all those messy parameters you mentioned. We can’t change those but with my patients we see that we can change your resilience to those things. And that is what guides whether the herb is the right one, at the right dose for you.
Hi @drmudlark thank you for your time in replying and I would definitely be interested in reading the post on the similar subject that you mentioned when you get an opportunity to locate it!
Also many thanks @pamelaspence and @Kaveh for your detailed responses and insight on how the process of finding the best plants/plant product for my individual situation.
Hi Oliver, i have found the thread where i asked whether sofi could benefit from extra information from us and how the analysis can deal with many variables.
It contains a reply from enricovarano ( the maths guy!) and other team members and you just have to scroll down a bit.
I will attempt to post the link but not sure i am doing it right so here goes:
) Sooo many variables, so little time!
